What do live television news, improvisation, and organizational leadership have in common?
Quite a bit, it turns out.
In this episode, I sit down with communication expert and former TV news anchor Christina Butler to explore how confidence isn't about being perfect—it's about being prepared, adaptable, and willing to take the next step even when you don't have all the answers.
Drawing on two decades covering breaking news, riots, major court cases, and other high-pressure situations, Christina shares practical strategies that leaders can use to communicate with clarity during uncertainty and change. Along the way, we discover just how similar the worlds of journalism and improv really are.
Whether you're leading a team through change, giving presentations, or simply trying to communicate
Key Takeaways
Why confidence comes from experience, not perfection.
How journalists stay calm under pressure and what leaders can learn from it.
Why curiosity is one of the most powerful communication skills you can develop.
How to structure messages so they're clear, concise, and memorable.
The importance of knowing your audience before you communicate.
Why leaders should focus on purpose before tactics.
How repetition builds confidence in presentations and difficult conversations.
Lessons from improv and journalism about adapting in the moment.
Practical ways to communicate effectively during organizational change.
Relevant Links
Christina Butler: https://christina-butler.com
Connect with Christina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinabutler717/
Learn more about Avish: https://avishparashar.com
Get a copy of Say "Yes, And!" to Change: https://SayYesAndToChange.com
Unedited Transcript
Avish
Hello, Christina, and welcome to the podcast. How are you?
Christina Butler
I am great, and it is awesome to be here, Avish.
Avish
Well, thank you. I'm super excited about this. I was already— you know, I had already invited you on, was excited to have you on, and then I started doing research and learned more of your story. I'm like, oh, this is a lot of interesting stuff to chat about here. Before we get into all of the great content and all of your expertise, for people who don't know you, could you give us the sort of one-minute who you are and what you do overview?
Christina Butler
Sure. Who I am? Christina Butler. I'm a recovering TV reporter and anchor. I say that in the nicest way possible. I did 20 years hard time, both anchoring and on the street out in the community, interviewing people, telling stories. I did that about two decades and realized that I liked teaching communication strategies better than actually using them on the fly.
Christina Butler
So I transitioned into the training and keynote world, and I've been doing this for about 10 years, specifically working with organizations that want their employees to be more clear, more concise, and confident in their communication.
Avish
Love it. And I want to get into all that, the clear, concise, confident, that's sort of your brand. But first, I have a question. You said 20 years on the news, and I watched your news clip video. And the thing that surprised me the most is, I'm curious, where you did your reporting? Because I was watching it, I'm like, do you have a Southern accent in those videos, which I'm not hearing now?
Christina Butler
I did report in Virginia for two years. It was Charlottesville, Virginia. It shouldn't have been too much of a Southern accent, but that was really a mod podge community. Nobody was really from Charlottesville who worked in news in Charlottesville, so some of that might have been picked up there. But that's why I was in.
Avish
It's fine if you do. No judging here. Just, yeah.
Christina Butler
Flip into it, you know?
Avish
So this podcast, then, you know, with my book in focus is usually around change and saying yes and to change, which, you know, your topic is about helping people communicate, which on the surface seems like, eh, it's a little bit not the same. But the more I dug into it, there are a couple areas I think that it does. And the first for me, and I talk a lot about it in my program, is mindset. And I was watching and reading some of your content. I realized that a lot of what you talk about, you know, before you get into the specific communication tactics, is about, like, that inner confidence. And I was wondering if you could just share a little bit about how that kind of ties into your message, like how you feel and your confidence into communicating effectively.
Christina Butler
Sure. Well, I think what I learned very quickly in news is that you can't worry about being perfect. You have to be ready. So it's this idea of ready anyway. Be ready anyway. And if you're confident in what you're saying, it doesn't matter how practiced you are, how rehearsed you are, how perfect it sounds. It's how well you know that content that then comes out in the moment that you're able to communicate it clearly, when you really know what you're talking about and believe in it.
Avish
So that's interesting. So it's very much I totally get, like, the how much you know and knowing your stuff, obviously really important. Back in my presentation skills days, I used to talk about that, like, the more you know your stuff. Do you ever talk to people who, like, are in situations? What happens in situations when someone is talking about something they don't know much about, or they're asked a question they don't know anything about or enough about? What's kind of the approach you take then?
Christina Butler
Oh, of course, frameworks. I love frameworks. Before we get into the frameworks, though, when you don't know, for example, I was working with an engineering group about two months ago, a local engineering group, and they're so scientific. Typically, I don't want to stereotype, but they want specific answers and strategies, and they want the data, and they want the numbers that back it up. So they're asked for their opinion on something or their answer to a question from leadership. And if they can't prove it 100% on the spot, they say, I don't know. And that's it.
Christina Butler
Instead of taking that, I don't know yet, and here's what we do know, and here's what we're going to do with that information so that we can have that answer. So it's really getting into the idea of, even when you don't know, how can you make that answer have some process to it and still offer substance?
Avish
Well, I'm curious how you handle this, because I say something similar. We were talking about how we have a similar approach, minds around, like, change and improvisation, and yours around communication. But I would say the same thing. Like, if you don't know the answer, say, I don't know, and I will get back to you, and then make sure you do it. And I'm curious how you handle because I think some people are so ingrained in this, it seems so weak to them to say, I don't know. It's almost like they have to, they try to BS their way through an answer because, oh, saying, I don't know. Whereas I tell people that saying, I don't know, actually builds confidence.
Avish
But I'm curious, how do you, or what do you do when you encounter people who don't want to say, I don't know?
Christina Butler
It's really walking them through. And as you were saying that, I was thinking, again, so many parallels between how we speak in corporate America and what I did during my time in TV news. And there would be times where we'd be in an editorial meeting in the morning, and they would say, OK, Kristina, you're covering this school district's decision to fire this employee. Well, school districts aren't going to tell you anything about their employees, especially if it's a personnel matter. We know that. Yet I still have to come up with a minute and 20 seconds to report on about that topic. So what do we do?
Christina Butler
We do process storytelling. That's where if you watch the local news or national news or feature stories, you'll sometimes see the reporter, and there's a shot of them walking in a building, and they say, we went to the da da da da da. We were told this. That's process storytelling. There's no story. We are giving no new information, but we are telling you how we're getting the information. So if you take that and you look at it in a corporate culture, when people are asked for something, and as you said, they don't have the answer, yes, I don't have that, and here's what we're doing to get it.
Christina Butler
So it adds that substance to it, and it gives it that forward motion.
Avish
Yeah, I love that approach. And I was just thinking, as you're talking about that, that really, as a when you were a newscaster, I mean, you basically had to be sort of a master of improvisation, right? Because you were getting these stories almost in real time, and then when you're out there interviewing people, I'm sure you could share lots of stories of unexpected and things you just had to sort of maintain your composure and.
Christina Butler
Cameras catching on fire.
Avish
What caught on fire?
Christina Butler
Cameras catching on fire. Cameras catching on fire while you're talking into them. It wasn't just even the stories and the content. It was the technical stuff a lot of times that you had to improvise with. You know, what do you do when all your lights go down? What do you do when the back in the olden days, and it was an actual tape that had your precious video on it? What do you do when the machine eats that?
Christina Butler
That's the type of improv and adaptability we had to do, as well as when the actual content and stories changed.
Avish
Well, that kind of goes into kind of jumping ahead a little bit. One of the stories I was going to ask about later, but seems to segue now is, and I think this was with the and I'm just curious, because in your demo video, you sort of start this story, and then it doesn't continue in the demo. So I'm curious for myself. I think it was during, like, Baltimore riots, and you were, like, in your car, and people were you were in the car, and people were attacking the car, and you said a great line, which is that, you know, you were terrified, but you couldn't show that. So I'd love to get a little more context about that story and kind of how that applies to the work you're doing.
Christina Butler
Sure. It's funny. That's the story we're starting with, because that was the day in my career in news where I said, I'm done.
Christina Butler
I'm done. I need an exit strategy from this career here. And the Baltimore riots, if you remember, there was a teen named Freddie Gray, and he was being transported to a police station. He was in the back of a police-type van, and he died in the back of the van. And a lot of people were outraged. I know they thought it was police mistreatment, and Baltimore essentially erupted. So I was not working in the Baltimore market at the time.
Christina Butler
I was working in the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania market, quick, you know, hour and a half away, enough overlap because the story was so big that it wasn't unheard of for crews in Harrisburg to go to Baltimore to cover that. But we showed up late. And you can't show up late to a riot. We show up late, and our assignment desk said, hey, we heard there's going to be some commotion in this area.
Christina Butler
So we went there. We drive our live truck there. It's myself and a photographer, not my normal daily photographer, you know, who you develop in this. You can read each other's body language. You know exactly what to do. Not that photographer, one who I had only occasionally worked with. And we get sent to this site where apparently there was going to be commotion.
Christina Butler
And sure enough, we get there within five minutes of us being there in the middle of this empty, almost like a strip mall parking lot, crowds. I mean, just people came from everywhere, and they saw us. And here we are, a sitting duck. We're in this label giant TV news van. And they quickly turned all of that anger and rage and just pent-up frustration on our news truck. And that's when they started throwing stones. I remember somebody had a red moving dolly, and they were threatening to bash our van in with it.
Christina Butler
Police couldn't get to us. National Guard couldn't reach us. And in that moment, we still had to make the decision to get back to your point. How does this translate into what I do? Because hopefully, most people aren't showing up to a riot in their everyday jobs. But how that translates is that in that moment, we had to take that breath and say, we still need to get video here. We still need to tell this story because other people aren't here to witness it.
Christina Butler
So we still have a job to do. So we take a deep breath. First of all, make sure we're safe, and then immediately go into that work mode. And you take the key points, and that's what you do in the moment when you have to share it. So again, hopefully, people aren't in riots, but they do have high-stakes meetings where perhaps a big project is resting on their shoulders. And the way they present it to senior leadership means that project is going to go forward or not. And what do they do?
Christina Butler
They have to take that breath. They have to narrow down the three points, and they have to say them with confidence. And they can't stand up. They're shaking and nervous, even if you want to, even if you want to. It's about managing those nerves in that moment and still staying on target with your message.
Avish
That's a wild story. And I'm curious, when you say make sure you're safe, did you, like, drive away from that crowd before you started?
Christina Butler
Eventually.
Avish
Or were you reporting from inside the van while this was going on around you?
Christina Butler
Fair question. And Hollywood does this thing where in movies where you see TV news crews, it's like they can jump out of their van, and they're immediately live. And that's really how it happens. Now there is technology that makes that a little easier, but at that point, you still had to establish a signal. So what we were doing was set up to get the video at that point, not directly stream live. We knew we had to get out of that. I mean, we were surrounded.
Christina Butler
We knew we had to get out, but we couldn't even drive forward because there were people in front of us. Eventually, we were able to, I guess, clear away out of that parking lot. And then we probably got about two blocks away, and that's when we said, OK, now we can set up and go live. But all that is minutes. We're not talking an hour to regroup yourself. You have producers saying, get on, get on the air, get on the air, or you're doing a phone or while your photographer is getting out of that parking lot. So it's really it's quick.
Christina Butler
It's really quick. And that's what's required of us in corporate America too. Be quick, even when it's stressful. Keep yourself together. Project that confidence. Still hit your main points.
Avish
Well, it's very impressive. And I'm curious, was it just the was it just, like, the pausing and taking a breath? Because, I mean, I think for so many of us, like, when I tried to project myself in that situation, like you said, that was, like, the straw that really counted back for you. Like, all right, then you're, like, you're leaving that. I feel like for many of us, that moment would have been it. Like, we would not even have bothered to, like, all right, we're not, like, I don't feel safe.
Avish
I'm totally frazzled. I'm just not even going to bother getting this footage.
Christina Butler
Oh, that's it.
Avish
Let's get the heck out of here. Yeah. Yeah.
Avish
So how do you kind of was it just, like, pausing and taking a breath and saying, no, I need to do this? Or, like, how do you kind of retrain your mind in that moment to stay in the moment?
Christina Butler
Well, first of all, you have to care about it. You know, you have to care about what you're doing, and that has to you have to find a way to make what you're talking about. You have to feel connected to it in a way that overrides those nerves. And if we could take a sidetrack and talk about nerves, because that's what is at the heart of this, right?
Christina Butler
Like, I was nervous. I was scared out of my mind. But it was that combination of staying on point and managing those nerves. And for me, and I certainly don't want to speak for everybody who has ever been in TV, but the way you learn to manage those nerves is by being in situations, putting yourself in those situations. So when we were taking that two-block drive, you know, and all that adrenaline is now, like, starting to really unfold in us, it was knowing, OK, scary things have happened to us before on site, and we got through them. It's falling back on that, and it's knowing, OK, I felt like this before, and I made it through. We've been scared before, and we've been OK.
Christina Butler
Again, translation into corporate America is the more you put yourself in those situations where you're standing up in front of leadership, in front of the president, and talking, in front of even your team if you're a manager, the more you do that, the more that muscle memory reminds you, you'll get through this. It's OK. It's OK.
Christina Butler
Take that breath. You'll get through this. So it's relying on that muscle memory that you'll be OK.
Avish
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because one of the things that we were talking about that is similar in both of our contents is one of the things I talk about with improv and applied improv and dealing with change or leading is the importance of, like, just focusing on your one next step. Like, and you talked about this as well. It's not about, like, so many people are waiting to have the whole thing figured out. But, like, an improv, and I have a story in my book about this, about how this one time we all sort of knew the end point of this long improvisation, which made the whole improv terrible because, you know, it just so.
Christina Butler
That's the point, right?
Avish
Yeah. And it's the uncertainty, but it's, like, kind of to your point, it's like if I'm a first-day reporter, and it's like, oh, here, get in the van and go to this riot scene, then there's a good chance I'm going to totally shut down. You don't jump in, but you start, like you said, day after day with the small stuff so that, you know, for example, I mean, very different stakes. You know, I've done improv for 30 years, and it's an art form that terrifies a lot of people to, like, get up and have to be funny with nothing prepared. And I'm like, at this point, like, I can get on stage in front of 1,000 people with nothing prepared and, you know, call up a volunteer I've never met before, and I don't really feel nervous about it. But to your point, it's like if not hundreds, if not thousands of performances 30 years. So it's but day one when I started the first time in my college improv group was, you know, 20 people in the audience.
Avish
It was a very different situation. So you build up to it.
Christina Butler
Yes. Well, is that because I remember the first time Avish, I think I saw you on stage, it was National Speakers Association Philadelphia event years ago, and you got up on stage and were doing these things. And I was like, how he doesn't have any sort of script. Like, he's just how is he doing this so confidently? So is that your trick? I'm curious what's similar or what's different about how we handle that, like, scripts out the window situation. Is that what you fall back on?
Avish
Like, so what's my trick? Well, the thing with the ooh, that's a big question. So there's a.
Christina Butler
I mean, so well, let me rephrase it. So in those moments, like, when you don't know what's coming next, a lot of people, that is terrifying for. That's terrifying. Even keynote speakers who do this professionally stand on stage. That idea of not knowing which way you may have to pivot, how do you handle nerves in that situation?
Avish
So a couple of.
Christina Butler
Am I allowed to do this, by the way? Flip this interview.
Avish
You have 20 years. You can take the.
Christina Butler
I'm genuinely curious, though.
Avish
We can take you out of the reporting. Can't take the reporting out of you as it is.
Christina Butler
I'm curious. I'm curious how you handle it in those moments.
Avish
So there's kind of two tracks to this question. One is in an improv comedy context. And in improv, because it is less important to come up with the right answer, right? It's like you can just say anything. So in those contexts, you learn to trust your creativity in that I've done this enough that I know. And I think the it might have been the exercise I did when you saw me, but it's like an expert game where I pretend to be the expert.
Christina Butler
Yeah.
Avish
And so many people, and just for context, if you're listening, haven't seen it, it's basically I get a topic from the audience I know nothing about. I pretend to be the world's leading expert. They ask me questions, and I blurt. And then what I find is that most people, when playing a game like that, they'll try to think of a funny answer to the question.
Christina Butler
Yes.
Avish
And what I learned is you just got to flow. And so I'll just go whatever first idea pops to my mind and just start talking because I've trained my creativity. And it doesn't always work. And I think this goes to another point is that realizing that once in a while, it's not going to work, and that's not the end of the world. And the other thing is realizing that the more I can get out of my conscious mind, the better it'll be. So if I've reached the end of my answer and it hasn't said anything funny, I'll just keep talking because by definition, I have to say something creative because I got nothing else to say. That's the improv comedy answer.
Avish
The real-world answer, you know, the application answer is similar. It's just you do more evaluating as you go. So when I talk about step by step, it's like you say your first answer, and then you're kind of paying attention to, is this working? And you are quickly it's something I call act, analyze, adjust. You take an action. You see what happens. You make the next step.
Avish
And I think that's where and as I'm rambling now, I realize that's where people get into trouble, though. Instead of, like, starting with a short answer and then pausing, like you said, pause, they'll just keep going and going and going and going. If you're trying to be random and creative, that's effective. If you're trying to connect and be intelligent, then people know, oh, you're just, like, you don't know what you're saying. You're just rambling on.
Christina Butler
Digging yourself out, trying to find something that makes sense. But what I love about what you said there is that you said you have to learn that if it doesn't work, it's not the end of the world. Like, you have to the way I said, you have to build confidence that you've gotten through scary situations or pressurized situations before. Also, you've also failed. You've also fallen on your face. I've plenty of times early in my career did words not come out right when I was live on air or the teleprompter went down. And early in my career, things like that would have shattered me.
Christina Butler
I mean, I would have I'd just panicked. By the end, it's like, all right, well, I know how to get through it. I know that that's not the end of the world. I know I have enough confidence in myself to know that I can handle that if it happens. So I like how you said that because there's crossover there as well.
Avish
Yeah, and I think the other point I tried to make is that not only is it not the end of the world, but sometimes those failures are the best moments or the greatest opportunity to learn and innovate. I just read a quote from someone somewhere. It was like an internet comment. It wasn't, like, a famous person, but it was something to the long lines of you learn more from a good failure than or from a bad failure than a spectacular success. Like, you don't learn anything when you succeed because you're like, oh, I did it.
Avish
I'm great. I just keep going. And, you know, there's so many, like, there's so many things that you can learn when you pivot and innovate off of a failure. So and it's funny. I haven't done a lot of media appearances. Certainly, only, like, a handful, like, two or three live ones. But even as, like so we're talking about familiarity.
Avish
Even as a quote unquote master of improvisation, I find it intimidating because it's like you're going on live on, you know, the morning show, and, you know, you got two minutes and this camera and this camera. I'm like, all right. And I'm looking over, and, like, the anchor sitting there is just, like, they're totally relaxed. They're chatting away. I'm like, why are we not mentally focused on the zone? We got to get ready here.
Christina Butler
The open is playing, and you're like, do I have a microphone on yet? Yeah.
Avish
But it is repetition and familiarity. And I think, and, you know, not to get too old mani on people, it's I feel like the world progresses, and people are just looking more and more for hacks and shortcuts. You know, well, how can I just quickly have the confidence to speak great? It's like, well, yeah, we can give you the skills and techniques, but a lot of it's repetition and practice so you are comfortable in all those scenarios.
Christina Butler
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Avish
So how do you.
Christina Butler
And certainly trusting your colleagues. You have to trust them.
Avish
Well, go ahead. Go ahead. I think you were about to say something interesting.
Christina Butler
Just the other part I have to mention there is it's also having that trust in your colleagues. You know, I gave the example, which is true. I mean, this really happens. It's 20 seconds before you're on, and you're still clipping your mic on. You know, and the audio person is screaming for a mic check. You have to trust that they're going to do their jobs well enough that that microphone's going to work. You have to trust when you're out on the, you know, on a breaking news scene that your videographer is getting the shots that they know are going to work as well.
Christina Butler
So it's really that trusting your team too, which, again, does translate into professionals and roles and clients I work with. They have to at some point say, I've done enough with this. I need to let the rest of my team step in. So there's some of that as well, trusting your team.
Avish
Well, there we're going real off the plan. You know, we're improvising. Let me throw an idea out to you that I've talked about when it comes to improv and see how this translates to what you just said about trusting your colleagues. So my weird applied improv background really started almost 30 years ago when I was running an improv group. And then I read Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Covey. And, you know, he's got the book broken up is that the first three habits are independents, like you and yourself, and the next three are interdependents, which is you and other people. And I thought about it in improv comedy and, like, a light bulb went off in my head.
Avish
I was like, oh, there's your skills, and then there's the interaction. And so I came up with the idea that the key the thing the reason I can go out and improvise with a volunteer in a keynote that has never done improv before and I can do something on stage is I have 100% trust in myself that if they totally screw it up, I'm going to be OK. So I 100% agree. You got to trust your colleagues and let it go. I think so many leaders, managers, and people micromanage and don't trust their people because deep down, they're sort of afraid of how messed up they're going to be if these other people drop the ball. And I'm just curious. And I'm throwing this out at you from nowhere.
Avish
I'm just curious kind of what your thoughts on that based on what you just said about trusting your colleagues.
Christina Butler
Sure. And you're talking more from a manager. I'm not name bashing any news directors that I ever worked for, but I can say that I worked for a lot of different news directors. And a news director is the person who really is in charge of the newsroom. They're in charge of the final say in really what airs, who covers what, what direction a story may go. They're the boss, essentially, of the newsroom. And I worked for several.
Christina Butler
And it was I will say it was the ones who did trust, first of all, their hires, the ones who could say, OK, well, I hired this person. I better trust them. It was the ones who trusted their teams to work together and who trusted really trusted every position, trusted the assignment editors not to miss a story or to make the right call about whether to divert a crew, to trust the producer about whether they were choosing the right story to lead with. The ones who trusted people were the best managers because they knew, OK, this is the group I can trust. So I'm going to let them run with it. Instead of getting in the weeds and getting so involved in each word of how a script was phrased, when that wasn't you know, there's nothing really to mold us and grow us instead of getting so micromanaged in the words. And those were the managers in news anyway that were the easiest to work with and that we all seemed to grow the most under.
Avish
Yeah, and I think that translates to pretty much any industry. It's what the guys say. You and I both talk about, like, if it's not perfect, it's OK, that freedom to fail. Give yourself but I think as a manager or leader, it's what you're saying is, like, give the people the chance to fail, basically.
Avish
Like.
Christina Butler
Yes.
Avish
Look, I'm going to trust you now. Not over and over again. It's not like, oh, I'm going to trust you over. It's like, all right. But so many leaders, managers, directors sort of presuppose failure. They're like, well, I want to make sure you don't fail as opposed to, well, Christina, here's kind of thing. And, you know, let me know what you need help.
Avish
Like, give guidance. But, you know, hey, you know, if you mess it up, that's part of the learning process. So OK, we've talked a lot about that, the mindset piece. I don't want to make sure we have time to talk about a little bit tactical stuff as well. So you're sort of we have the mindset, but then you go into kind of how to frame communication. And I talk to people about change, and I think communication is doubly important in times of change and, you know, crisis. I'm not a crisis speaker, but you've got a catchphrase, I guess, for lack of a better term, about being clear, concise, and confident, which I'm assuming is that your framework, or is that just is that what you call your.
Christina Butler
It's the overall framework. It's the overall framework. And I mean, many sub-frameworks go in there.
Avish
Sure.
Christina Butler
Overall, yes. You have to be clear in your communication. Getting clear means knowing who you're talking to, know your audience, and know your why. You have presentation skills background, so this is familiar to you, but really getting very clear on who you're talking to, why you're talking to, that's the clear. The concise is some of the frameworks about how you get to the point, how you, to use news terms, don't bury the lead. Give us the headline. That's the concise.
Christina Butler
And the confident comes when you're clear and concise and a bit of the delivery dynamics thrown in there as well. So really, if you can be clear, concise, that makes you confident, and that makes you an effective communicator in the workplace.
Avish
Well, I'm curious about how you I want to dig in a little bit how you work with groups because I've done some presentation skills training. I mean, I feel like every professional speaker at some point in their life is taught a class.
Christina Butler
Some of us like it more than others.
Avish
What's that?
Christina Butler
Some of us like it more than others, and that becomes our lane, and we love it.
Avish
And that's great because there is a need for it. There is a huge need for it.
Christina Butler
Oh, my gosh.
Avish
But whenever I've done it, it's always been half-day, full-day workshops. You get really into the weeds. You get people talking. But you do a lot of keynote speaking. So I'm curious, like, when you're doing a keynote, how do you distill down relevant message on a topic that usually takes a long time for a lot of people to convey in a way that the people can walk out of the room taking some action?
Christina Butler
Mm-hmm. It really boils down to that must know, should know, could know, must know, could know, should know. Like, I would love to have eight hours with every single audience and group that I get to work with. I would love to dive into the nitty and gritty. But to your point, sometimes it's a 45, 50-minute keynote, and you've got to bang, bang, bang. That's where I have to be clear, concise, and confident. One thing I do, though, is I look at it I'm sort of calling them key shops more than keynotes because me standing up there, which is a mash-up for keynote and workshop, I'm key shopping because me standing up there and talking about, here's how to speak effectively for 55 minutes, sure, I can model it, and I can teach them, but I there still need to be opportunities for even large keynote groups, even if you have a group of 1,000 people, to practice it themselves in the moment.
Christina Butler
So even keynotes are a mix of that workshop. You know, let's take a quick five-minute break with a partner table. However the group certain groups don't like to work. However, you know the audience well enough to work it. But really getting that interaction as well, whether it's calling somebody up on stage or, again, having them work and getting it out of their mouth on the spot, not just, here, let me push everything I know about communication out at you for 55 minutes. And then from the response you get from that, it really tailors how deep you go in certain subjects.
Avish
All right, so let's come up with a hypothetical here. Let's say you got someone listening right now who's a corporate leader going through a change. You know, let's say AI is the big change the world is going through right now, and they're like, all right, we're going to start using more AI. And they've got this weekly meeting with their staff, you know, their 50, 100 people, whatever, their organization. What and I understand this is a broad question, but, like, hypothetically, if you were sitting with this person, you had a few minutes to chat with them, what would you recommend they do to kind of make the most of that time and their message?
Christina Butler
So focusing before we even get to the how are you concise, how are you saying this, how are you going to deliver this confidently with your delivery dynamics, that specific situation needs a very, very, very clear purpose. What is their purpose? Is it to tell their employees, hey, this is what we're doing, get on board? Is it to surface, like, questions and hesitation?
Christina Butler
Is it to motivate them? Is it to encourage them that this is the way to go? So it's really being clear about that purpose because if that leader doesn't go into that conversation knowing that, they're going to get overrun real fast. They're going to get pushed back, or the message isn't going to land. So in that particular thing, I would say, how could you sum up how you want them to think they'll do when they leave? Like, what is that one sentence? And then going back to the who, getting really, really clear on obviously, they know who's in the audience, right?
Christina Butler
It's their team, their employee, but what are their specific objections? What do they care about? What wakes them up at night thinking about AI and then connecting those two?
Avish
OK, no, I love that. And it's funny. When I do the quick thinking type workshops, it is it's very similar. Like, someone asks you a question. It's you got to, like, take that quick second to think about, like, what's the what's my answer, right? Which sounds obvious, but so many people don't think about that. It's like.
Christina Butler
Sure.
Avish
Something pops in their head. Like, well, let me start rambling, but kind of taking that moment to think. And I guess that's the clear part of the clear, concise, and confident.
Christina Butler
Right. It's not the title of the meeting. You know, that's not what the purpose is. It's looking at.
Avish
Or the beautiful PowerPoint slides that look nice.
Christina Butler
Yes, yes. It's not that.
Avish
Real quick, a little side note, talking about your framework, you mentioned in email to me that your children are now old enough to use your framework against you.
Christina Butler
Yes, yes. Like, when did this happen? My kids are 9 and 11. And really, it's my daughter, the older one, who is she gravitates towards words as well. And she's really from a young age, she was a very early talker. She's always been a communicator. And she's now old enough that the frameworks I teach like, I'll, you know, be working with a client all day.
Christina Butler
I come home, and she does the same framework. For example, there's one flip the script. Lots of people teach this, different variations. You know, there's reverse reveal, flip the script. But it's the idea of taking what somebody is saying when they're giving you a no and turning it around into the reason you should do something. Like, you tell me no, and I say yes. That's actually exactly why.
Christina Butler
So for example, my daughter did this to me when she we recently got back from vacation. We love Cape May in New Jersey. It's like, it's our family's happy place. We got back, and my daughter said, we need to go back at the end of the summer. We need to go back. We need to go back. And I had to say, honey, like, we have so much going on.
Christina Butler
You're getting back into you know, cheer, and daddy's work is busy, and I'm traveling again, and your brother's doing who knows what. Like, we're so busy. I don't think we have time. Well, she pulled the framework on me about reverse reveal, flip the script, and said, Mom, I know we're busy. That's exactly why we should make time together to go on a family vacation and connect. So it's just funny when you can see how even at such a young age, some of these communication strategies and principles are effective. Because what was I supposed to say to that, Avish?
Christina Butler
Like, no, we don't need time as a family, even though we're busy.
Avish
Yeah, that's smart. Well, you know, whether you're doing it overtly or not, you're training her well.
Christina Butler
I'm like, oh, man, working against me now.
Avish
Yeah, it's funny. I don't know. I haven't talked much about my business. My kids are 11 and 7 and 3. But, like, the 11-year-old, I don't think I've never really fully explained the yes and yes but things. So he has not yet thrown that back in my face because I'm sure I.
Christina Butler
Oh.
Avish
You know, I say this all the time. Like, in a professional environment, I'm great about stepping back and saying yes and.
Christina Butler
Right.
Avish
But, you know, when we talk about home life, it's going to be like, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but. So pretty soon.
Christina Butler
Yeah, exactly.
Avish
Pretty soon.
Christina Butler
Exactly. We're glad there aren't cameras in our houses, right?
Avish
Yeah, he's going to start throwing them in my face. All right, a couple of quick semi-unrelated, but just you've had so many interesting experiences that you mentioned that I wanted to just ask about just, if nothing else, out of curiosity and maybe see if some of these ideas fit into there. But if not.
Christina Butler
Yeah, let's go.
Avish
So you mentioned that you were the Jerry Sandusky trial. You're the only reporter who was there for every minute of the court, like, transcribed court proceedings.
Christina Butler
Yes. I mean, there were hundreds of reporters covered that case. I was the only one from start to finish every minute. And as context, the Sandusky case, as we know it, was Jerry Sandusky, who is now in prison for all sorts of horrible sex crimes against boys in the Penn State campus scene. And for anybody who follows Big Ten football or specifically anybody in Central Pennsylvania, that was a huge story when it happened, huge. And it spanned, you know, the whole trial spanned months. The actual testimony was relatively short considering the nature of the trial.
Christina Butler
It was a couple of weeks. But yes, every single moment in there heard every witness, every cross-examination sat probably three rows behind Sandusky, sometimes two rows. You know, he was right there when he walked past us every morning, saw his wife, Dottie. It was one of those cases that you had to be fully invested in. Like, a lot of times in news, one of the good parts about it is you compartmentalize it. You go to work. You have a story for one day. 6:30 p.m., that story's gone.
Christina Butler
You never see it again. That was a different case because it was so long and constantly unfolding.
Avish
So I'm just curious, was it were you assigned to that, or did you sort of raise your hand and say, I want to do I want to be on this case?
Christina Butler
I think I lobbied for that one pretty hard. I think I I think I said I would work five Saturdays in a row. I'm sure I made some ridiculous offer. But I knew I wanted that one because, again, it just kept unfolding and unfolding.
Avish
Yeah.
Christina Butler
And there was something new every day.
Avish
That's and I was always curious about that because, you know, I love courtroom dramas, but my belief, having managed to avoid jury duty for my whole life so far, I feel like it'd be really boring. And I'm just wondering, like, as a is it not? Is like, the witness is it fascinating? Or are you ever, like, interviewing or talking, reporting a story where, like, this is really boring? And if so, like, how do you maintain your focus, and how do you find the interesting elements in the boredom?
Christina Butler
There were certainly stories that were boring, certainly. I mean, you're talking minimal tax increments you have to report on. And how do you make that interesting? That's separate. If we stick with the court cases first, I'm your polar opposite here. I think we have a lot in common of each, but I'm your polar opposite with jury duty. Like, I want jury duty so badly because I love being in a courtroom.
Christina Butler
Yes, sometimes the testimony gets really wordy and all that, but that's when you turn around. That's when the story isn't what's happening at the front of the courtroom. That's when you turn around and you take a look at the family members. How are they handling things? That's when you take the time to really study the subject, the defendant. What are they doing? You know, what habits are they showing?
Christina Butler
What tics do they have? How much are they conferring with their attorney? You know, what are people saying in the back of the courtroom? So there is always something that's interesting in a courtroom, even if it's a really, really long trial. It's about just recentering where your focus is. So I do know I'm that's not the norm.
Christina Butler
I know a lot of people would.
Avish
No, that's great.
Christina Butler
Gladly.
Avish
That answer.
Christina Butler
Gladly avoid jury duty. But for me, I love being in a courtroom and watching everything that's going on.
Avish
I love that. So you know, so not to self-promote too much, but, you know, my book, the I created a framework out of the phrase yes and as an acronym. But the D is for dig deeper. And I feel like that ties in. And I didn't even think about applying to that scenario. But it's like, when you are losing interest or feeling bored or stressed or, you know, I think the natural response is to sort of self-soothe and distract yourself and pull out your phone. And but the but what you're saying and what the D, the dig deeper is like, no, get curious then.
Avish
Like, and all right, fine, that's boring. Well, what else is there that I can get.
Christina Butler
What else.
Avish
Curious about in my environment? I think that's such a powerful reframe, not just in court, but in really any environment.
Christina Butler
Anything. Anything corporate, yes. Like, you know, you're tired of a project. OK, well, what are other people thinking about it? Like, this is how I'm seeing it because I've been knee-deep in this or neck-deep in this for weeks. But let's take a look at what the outside is looking at this and what's similar. It's getting curious.
Christina Butler
And.
Avish
Now.
Christina Butler
Again, more news is news.
Avish
To be fair, you've got 20 years' experience. Your whole job was being curious, right? You had to, like, pay attention, ask questions.
Christina Butler
Right.
Avish
But it's definitely a lesson all of us can take. And, like, you know, it's getting away from surface level, I think. I think that also helps, like, in terms of rapport and understanding. It probably made you a much better interviewer when you were willing to and reporter when you were willing to dig deeper versus just, all right, here's what's going on at the top. Let me not bother looking any further than the surface.
Christina Butler
Yep.
Avish
All right.
Christina Butler
The idea of flipping the camera. Oops.
Avish
No, no, go ahead. Good.
Christina Butler
I was going to say it's the idea of flipping the camera around. You know, how many times have you seen video of a house fire? I mean, they're horrible. It always, you know, pulls at your heart a little bit. But what's more effective? When the camera is turned around and you see the video of people who are in shock watching it. That's more effective.
Christina Butler
It's that idea of turning the camera around, looking outside of for a work example, just the project you're looking on or the change that's happening and looking at the environment around it.
Avish
It's funny. I don't do nearly enough, but even not in a tragic situation like that, I do try. Like, I go for walks. And every so often, I get in this mental frame where I like to see cars driving by. And you see the person driving the car, and I just pause and ask, like, I wonder what their story is. Like, they're not doing anything interesting. It's not like, you know, oh, there's someone driving down the street, shirtless with a cowboy hat on.
Avish
Like, it's just a random person probably driving to work. And I'm like I don't do it enough, but I think it's kind of that thing, like, just connecting as people and kind of building that sense of curiosity.
Christina Butler
Curious, curious, curious.
Avish
That is all right. There's probably other stories here, but we're kind of coming to the end of time. We did talk about the Baltimore thing. So oh, wait a second. All right, I just want to touch upon speaking of tragedy. So you were there reporting during the Virginia Tech shooting as well?
Christina Butler
Yes. The I was anchoring during that time. And anchoring is when you're in the set.
Avish
Yeah.
Christina Butler
Like, on the set. You've got all the lights and the camera crew. And well, you always have camera crew. But you've got the teleprompter and producers in your ear really guiding you a script. And then there's in the field, which is when you're out on the scene. And for that, I was anchoring. The script kind of goes out the window at that point.
Avish
Yeah.
Christina Butler
Because that was wall-to-wall coverage. And Virginia Tech is in the neighboring town to Charlottesville, Virginia. University of Virginia is in Charlottesville, and Virginia Tech is in Blacksburg. So lots of families in Charlottesville had students at Virginia Tech. And it was just they were so closely related that it felt like a local story to us, too. It really was. But that was several, several hours on the set and trying to get that news and decipher it, knowing some people in your audience might still not have heard from people.
Christina Butler
Some are watching strictly out of curiosity. Some are watching because their loved ones are first responders who are there on scene and witnessing horrific things. And that story also just the importance of being accurate, the importance of being accurate and not speculating and making sure everything you're saying is 100% accurate because people are living for that news at that moment. Select audience, certain people in your audience. That was a hard one. That was a really hard one.
Avish
Yeah, and that I would assume you'd there probably like this, like, weight of responsibility in that, like you're saying, like, because people are getting their news from the new from you and because they're not on site. And so did you feel you had to compartmentalize there, like, just be able to like, all right, like, this is this horrific, tragic thing, but I just got to focus kind of like I got to focus on my next step and not let myself drown thinking about that?
Christina Butler
Exactly. Exactly. And a lot of again, I never want to speak for all reporters, but I many of my colleagues are my best friends still to this day, even if we don't work together. And so we had enough of similar habits that I feel safe saying one way we do that is in that moment, we're so focused, we can't think about the emotions of it. We can't think about to get horribly I mean, disturbing. And feel free to edit this out, but you can't think about the first responders who are walking through those classrooms and bodies are vibrating because their loved ones are calling their phones, but they can't answer them because they're dead. Like, you can't let yourself go down that hole in the moment, or you'll lose it.
Christina Butler
You'll completely break down because you're human on air. So instead, you get through it. And then at the end, it's when it that's when you decompress with your colleagues.
Avish
Well, let's kind of start wrapping things up by pivoting off of the tragedy, but on to kind of I think.
Christina Butler
Sorry.
Avish
Well, I think this ties in.
Christina Butler
Right.
Avish
It is that, you know, we talked about if you're, you know, if you're feeling unconfident as a speaker, presenter. But I think this whole idea and you and I both talked about, like, that one step or that just focusing on if you focus on the enormity of your presentation or the dozens or hundreds of thousands of people, it's but if you just focus on what's my next just as an example, when I first started, like many of us that I went to Toastmasters, you know, a little speaking organization. And for whatever reason, I'd have my speech well done. And, like, a minute before it was my turn to speak, I would immediately just forget exactly what I was supposed to say.
Christina Butler
Which is common.
Avish
Yeah, it's common. And then, you know, about five seconds before, I'd remember. And that just sort of became a pattern. But when I turned that into a technique of I just kept repeating and focusing on my opening sentence. Like, and that gave that was, like, my one thing. It lowered my nerves because I'm focusing on something. And it was and that's kind of what I recommend is, like, look, you don't need to the overwhelm, but just what's my next step?
Avish
Focus on that. And that kind of shrinks your focus so you don't get overwhelmed. I'm just curious how that resonates with you in terms of, like, the work you've done with people speaking and communicating.
Christina Butler
Absolutely. That. And again, it's funny, similar. Those first, you know, behind in the moments before we go on for a keynote, I'm doing those first lines. I'm doing those first lines. And I'm also focusing on the end. I feel like a lot of the people I work with, they can start, but where they get really muddy is when they're trying to wrap up.
Christina Butler
So if you have a clear exit strategy and you know confidently how you're going to wrap up a message or a presentation, that helps those nerves all the way through. If you know this is how I'm going to end, you can be a bit slower with it. So I say rehearse that open, sure, and also that close. How are you wrapping up? How are you powerfully closing?
Avish
Love it. That is great. We're going to finish up here in just a minute. I'm going to ask, like, one final question before I get to that. For people who want to connect with you, learn more about you, hire you to speak at their conference or workshop with their organization, what's the best ways to connect and reach out to you?
Christina Butler
Sure. I'm on LinkedIn. christina-butler.com is my website where that goes straight to everything you need as far as contact information. And I'm sure people can also find me through your LinkedIn page as well because we're connected. I think there are a couple of Christina Butlers, but people could find me.
Avish
Well, clearly, someone's got christina butler.com without the dash.
Christina Butler
I guess so, you know? But people could find me through there as well.
Avish
Yeah, and we'll link we'll put the links in, you know, in the show notes and stuff. But if someone's, like, driving and it's christina-butler.com.
Christina Butler
Yep.
Avish
Fantastic. Well, hey, I'm going to ask one kind of final question I try to wrap up all of these with.
Christina Butler
Yes. Let's do it.
Avish
It is, you know, I talk about this idea of saying yes and instead of yes, but because I think the world would be a better place if everyone just started with a default mindset of yes and. And I'm curious for you, what would be one small thing that you believe if everyone in the world did, it would make the world a better place?
Christina Butler
The world entirely or the world of communication?
Avish
I go with the world entirely, but you can interpret the world of communication. Just so it could be related to what we talked about. It could be different. Just what's one small thing that I wish everyone could just do this one small thing?
Christina Butler
Let's go back to a point we hit. And it is just continue to be curious. I hate to sound like Ted Lasso and take that line, but be curious. Just be curious about everything. Professionally, it helps you get clearer on what the vision is and what the goal is and what you're trying to communicate. And in real life, we know just be curious. Ask questions.
Christina Butler
That's why I ended up becoming a reporter. Ask questions from the time I was little. Ask questions. Be curious. That's mine.
Avish
That is a fantastic answer and a great way to wrap up. Christina, thank you so much for being on.
Christina Butler
Thank you.
Avish
This was terrific. And everyone, if you're listening or as you are listening, be sure to check out christina-butler.com and check out our LinkedIn. And I will link to all those in the show notes. Thank you so much.
Christina Butler
Thank you.
Avish
Where does it stop here?