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Say “Yes, And!” to Grategy

In this episode of Yes, And with Avish Parashar, I sit down with Lisa Ryan, a gratitude strategist, speaker, and author of Gear Up for Greatness. Lisa shares her journey of transforming gratitude into a powerful workplace strategy and explains how organizations can use appreciation to retain top talent, build better relationships, and foster thriving cultures.

We dive into Lisa’s six gears of strategy, her unique approach to employee engagement and retention, and the role of gratitude in creating sustainable change. Lisa also shares practical tips for leaders and managers to implement gratitude as a daily practice and how small shifts in mindset can create massive impacts.

If you’re looking for actionable strategies to improve workplace culture or simply want to bring more positivity into your life, this episode is for you!

Key Takeaways

  • How gratitude as a personal practice can lead to business transformation.

  • The six gears of strategy from Gear Up for Greatness: Attitude, Appreciation, Access, Applause, Acts of Service, and Accountability.

  • The importance of access and how leaders can create psychological safety in their teams.

  • The "Lasada Ratio" and how small shifts in positive communication can significantly impact team performance.

  • Practical tips for creating a culture of appreciation to retain top talent and boost morale.

Relevant Links

Unedited Transcript

Avish Parashar

Hello, Lisa Ryan, and welcome to the podcast.

Lisa Ryan

I am so excited to be here.

Avish Parashar

Awesome. Well, thank you. How are you doing today?

Lisa Ryan

I am doing just fantastic. Thanks.

Avish Parashar

I love it. I love that answer. I love that you were always so just positive. So so nice, which kinda fits in with your, with your brand and topic to a degree, I would think. Yeah. I love that that sort of positive and certainly in the content in your book, which we're gonna talk about, when we when we get into attitude and stuff.

So, Lisa, welcome. You are sort of an expert on gratitude and and how you can apply that in a variety of ways. And so rather than me trying to you know, I did some of the intro, but just for our listeners who are unfamiliar with you and your work, could you give us the sort of the one minute synopsis of, you know, what your business is all about, kinda the kind of work you do?

Lisa Ryan

Sure. Sure. I work, my company is strategy, which is gratitude strategy. And primarily I work with organizations to help them keep their top talent from becoming someone else's by creating a culture of appreciation where employees feel valued and appreciated, they're much more likely to stay. And even though I work with all kinds of organizations, I really am focused in manufacturing construction and the trades, not only because that's where my background came from, but those are industries that we really need to change the conversation so that we attract more people into those industries, and they have the, the labor they need to get the jobs done.

Avish Parashar

I love it. That's so it's it's such a great point, and it's so sort of a different angle, especially for that I I would assume for that industry. Before I dig deeper into that, you know, you kinda give the quick one line, oh, a strategy, which is gratitude as a strategy, which you've lived in, and I'm familiar with the work, so I know what you're talking about. For some people, though, they might be thinking like, what on earth does gratitude as a strategy mean? Because those are 2 words you don't generally put together. So, 2 questions, really. Could you go a little bit more detail about what you mean by strategy or gratitude as a strategy?

And how did you sort of develop this and and start putting it all together?

Lisa Ryan

Sure. Well, I'll start with the second question first, as far as how it all came together. I knew that because of my own gratitude practice that I started in 2009, I had been looking for a topic, to be a speaker, to speak to audiences about. And when I had the experiences that I did with my own personal practice of gratitude, I knew to the core of my being that that was the message that I was supposed to bring to the world. And I needed to take it out of the context of gratitude being this spiritual ethereal type of thing and bring it to the workplace where we could basically put some dollars and cents behind it that says, listen, this stuff is not only good in your personal life with your loved ones and family and friends, But when you take a person with a grateful attitude to the workplace, it not only makes the workplace culture better, but it also retains people. And it's kind of funny because I had started my business. My business name originally was appreciation strategies.

So I was chief appreciation strategist at appreciation strategies, which was obviously a mouthful. So I was over my friend, Dick Cluff's house one day and where he lives right on Lake Erie and it's a Friday night and, Friday afternoon, we're just walking and talking and trying to figure out a name for my business. And, you know, and we're putting together all these words, thankful and gratitude, and, you know, just going on and on. And finally, I looked at my watch, I'm like, dude, it is 5:30 on a Friday night. I got a date with my husband. I gotta go. So I left him and Scott and I, my husband and I were out to dinner and Dick called me and I'm like, did I just not leave you an hour ago?

And Dick's like, it's gratogy. I said, oh my God, it's gratogy. And I looked at my husband. I said, Scott, it's gratitude. And Scott's like, what are you talking about? So for about the first three or 4 years of my business, every year around Christmas, Dick would give me the rights, to use gratitude. And I was kinda like, it's already a registered trademark dude.

So, but it was one of those that I, I loved the name because it really summed up everything. And, you know, there's a lot of people on the planet that really hate made up names, but it takes so little it takes so little description as far as what what's strategy? Gratitude strategy

Avish Parashar

It's funny, man, because that's a that's a thought I had. Like, you know, I know some people in the marketing world are like, don't be too clever. Like, make up your own word, blah blah blah. And but gratitude is good because just from hearing it, I would say a bunch of people priority start to understand you could, like it sounds like gratitude strategy.

Lisa Ryan

Right.

Avish Parashar

And then like you said, it's literally, it's what, a 3 or 4 word description? Gratitude as a as a 4 word.

Lisa Ryan

Yep. Exactly.

Avish Parashar

So it's not like you have this clever made up word that then you need 3 paragraphs to explain what it is and why it exists. So, no. I love that. That is that is great. There's a couple of things before we get into your your book. I wanna dig a little bit deeper into that. So you said you started your own personal gratitude strategy in 2009. If you don't mind, and I'm curious, like part of this, I'll admit, might be me looking for free consulting is because I've heard this over the years, you know, write down 3 things you're grateful for every day, do the gratitude practice that has all these things.

So what's was sort of your, impetus? What kinda got you to to start doing a gratitude practice?

Lisa Ryan

I actually went to a 4 day, seminar that included a fire walk. So yes, it was a Tony Robbins week.

Avish Parashar

I did that too.

Lisa Ryan

And, my friends and I had driven to Chicago. We did the fire walk with 35100 other people. Excuse me. We did the fire walk with 35100 people and, you know, and and so, you know, you you hang out with Tony Robbins for 4 days after that, you are jacked up. So we are driving home from Chicago and we knew that unless we took action, all the stuff that we experienced those last 4 days would go right out the window. And we didn't want that to happen, you know, again. So we opened up a Facebook thread and we decided to share with each other people we met, experiences that we had, things that we learned.

And then my friend, Mike said, well, why don't we write down 3 things that we're grateful for? And honestly, I think he had just heard about it on Oprah or something. Sure. But we did that every day and we held each other accountable. And that was the impetus. I went into it with no expectation. It was just something that I was doing with friends.

And I noticed the changes almost different, almost immediately. I mean, I was in medical sales at the time. There were customers that I had not talked to for months that were calling me and they're like, Hey, can you come in and sell us some stuff? And I'm like, I'll be right there. And there were 2 large facilities that I'd been calling on for almost 5 years that just kind of closed. I noticed the difference from my husband who was becoming more verbally appreciative. So all of these things were happening.

And when I looked at it, the only thing that I had changed was that practice of gratitude. So that's really where the research began. And after reading, you know, 100, if not thousands, of articles and books and white papers and attending programs and, you know, accessing really great resources like the Greater Good Science Center and HeartMath, which are both based in California, I learned that gratitude was more than this feel good emotion that a lot of times that we ascribe to it. And I also knew that it it could really help in workplace culture. But the cool thing about it is it not only helps definitely in workplace culture, but you have that personal connection with it. And I think that that's what people really resonate with is it there's so many speakers out there and stuff telling them how to engage, you know, and it almost becomes kind of a check mark activity. But if you start with your own personal practice of gratitude, you start to see the results in your own life, better relationships, more happiness, less stress, then it's easier to take that person to the workplace.

And you're interacting with people every, you know, one moment at a time that you can either make their day a little bit better or, you know, you can make it worse, but gratitude really does help in that.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. It's such a a simple point that, like, gratitude and having kind of a mindset of gratitude is one of those things that it's, like, part of who you are.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah.

Avish Parashar

And so instead of just thinking of it like a corporate strategy, like, well, between the hours of 9 to 5, I'm going to be grateful. And then, when I get home with my spouse and children, I'm not. It's like, no. If you and I like how you say if you start it, even the practice because I think which kinda leads me to the next question, which will eventually lead to the book is that it does seem like a like a squishy, soft, fuzzy, very personal, you know, potentially involving incense and yoga. You know?

Lisa Ryan

Like, it's gonna be grateful.

Avish Parashar

Now I don't believe that because I obviously support this. But when you were, a, in your own mind thinking about it, and then when you go to companies or associations, like, hey. I'm gonna I wanna talk about gratitude and gratitude. And do you get pushback? Or, like, how do you kinda deal with that as far as, like, people thinking this is not something we need?

Lisa Ryan

Well, you know, it's such an interesting question because when I started in 2009 and I was going to bring gratitude to the workplace, I had a friend of mine kind of pat me on the shoulder and she said, oh, honey, no one's ever gonna pay you for that. And in 2009, she was absolutely right. So I had to figure out how do I turn this into a message that people find value in? And so I switched the, the languaging to employee engagement because they were paying for employee engagement at the time. The funny thing is, is that it was the exact same message, but you turn it into corporate speak now, and especially in a post pandemic economy, people are buying gratitude. I mean, that I get booked about it's, it's pretty close to 5050, as far as people either wanting gratitude or workplace culture. What I found is if the gratitude is in everything, but if my audience is primarily going to be leaders, owners, managers, etcetera, then we focus more on workplace culture.

But if we're doing like an all staff day, then I have a program that is basically pure gratitude. I call it my show talk because it starts with the S I'm an acronym girl. The s is the self and how it rewires our brain and changes our perspective. The h is the health benefits. The o, relationship with others, and this is outside the workplace. And then the w, we take it into the workplace, which is actually the exact correct order because I'm feeling gratitude. I'm physically feeling better.

My relationships at home are better, and then I can bring that person to the workplace. So it's going to be in both, but I find that if you have more of an all staff day where or a mixed group where there's not all managers in it, they may not necessarily have control over, you know, things like training and resources and everything else I talk about in my workplace program, but every single one of them can relate to that, that foundation of gratitude.

Avish Parashar

Well, I I love that. It's funny. The the two parallels that, I could kinda echo in my career. They had a similar thing as, like, people no one's gonna hire you for improvisation. Like, managers don't want their people improvising, and it almost derailed my career following that advice because, like, that's everything who I am and what I'm about. And when I follow the advice, I'm like, oh, let me take that out of my marketing. Like, well, what the hell am I doing? Yeah. So it was kinda it was kinda similar to that.

But then, you know, way back in my improv comedy days when I was developing the con it was very similar to you is I think I had read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Mhmm. And the way that book is set up, the first three habits are internal, like independence is what he calls it. And the next 3 were interdependence, which really changed how I thought about improvisation. I'm like, oh, first, we gotta build your inner foundation.

Like, how do you improvise? Then we worry about how do you work with other improvisers.

So it's like inside out, which Yeah. Is very similar to what you're saying. It's like you start with yourself, and then you work on your health, and then you work with other people but not at work. And and and it it's I think it's so effective. It seems like, again, for very bottom line driven people, they'd be like, well, you you don't need to talk about their personal relationships. Like, just get into just get into what they need here. Like like, how do you I mean, I don't know if you get that explicitly, but is that something you kind of bring up or talk about in your kinda presales conversations?

Lisa Ryan

I really in my presales conversations, I really focus on workplace culture and the, the power of appreciation. So, and it's actually gone more from engagement to retention because retention is the big thing. And when you look at just about any article or research that's out there, people who feel that they're valued and appreciated and recognized by their managers are going to, are, are going to stay. You know, engagement is nice, because it has, it creates harmony in the workplace. But if we really want our employees to stay, you know, we wanna make sure that that gratitude and appreciation is a big part of that.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And, yeah, engagement, Lisa.

And it's funny. I was just thinking because, you know, I talk about yes and which obviously for me, it ties into to gratitude. And, a few weeks ago, I had MJ Shar on. He's another speaker. I don't know if you know her. She's based out in North Carolina. She talks about kindness, which is sort of Yep.

With no planning on my part, I wasn't like, oh, these are all common themes, but it's sometimes it's just the simplest things like, hey. You know, be grateful. Be kind. Say I think a huge impact is just sort of convincing people of that, which is my sort of smooth transition here. Kinda leads into this is basically what your your book sort of bridges that gap because it's about gratitude, but it's done very specifically under the umbrella of, like, of applying it to a workplace culture.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah.

Avish Parashar

And, so the book, the title is, gears of greatness. That's correct. Right?

Lisa Ryan

Gear up for greatness.

Avish Parashar

Gear up for it. Yeah. I I have I I got the the Kindle version, so I don't have the physical right in front of me. Look. Wait. I didn't write down the exact title. So gear up for greatness.

Oh, there you go. If you're watching the video, you can see it says gear up for greatness, by Lisa Ryan. And for people who wanna know where they where can they where's the best place to go to to get this book and to learn more about you?

Lisa Ryan

Yeah. It's on Amazon.

I that is actually my 12th book, but it's also my first work of fiction, and it was, excuse me, it was by far the most fun book I have ever written because fiction has always kind of freaked me out a little bit. I didn't think that I could go there, but once the kind of the foundational story showed up because my new model is the 6 gears of strategy. Mhmm. And, I I put it in a fable form. So think, you know, who moved my cheese and the go giver and all those type of of business fables. But when the two main characters, James Peterson and Frank, and I really got to know them, it was just weird. Like, I'd be writing a part of it and I'd be saying, oh, well, what would Frank say in this situation?

You know, or what would James do in this situation? And it's like, I just, it was a lot of fun. And so the first, probably 3 quarters of the book is the story itself about how James turned around SteelTech Manufacturing, by using the 6 gears of strategy that was introduced by Frank. But the other thing that it's a very helpful book because the last part of it is an implementation guide.

Avish Parashar

Yeah.

Lisa Ryan

So I went through all 6 chapters, looked for the key tips. So it's kind of a, a nonfiction book with a fictional beginning. So it was just a blast to write.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And it's it's cool.

I was gonna talk about that at the end sort of going chronologically, but, like, it's not just, like, a lot of books will have that. They'll have little chapter summaries with, like, a few tips. Like, your guide at the end of this book, it's it's it's like a meaty guide. It's there's a lot of of, so it's both a a story which sort of gets you motivated and thinking about how you could use this stuff, but then you have a lot both within the chapters and also at the end, like, real tangible action items for for people to do.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah. And that's what I that's what I wanted in it. I think that the the other thing that just kinda makes me giggle when I at the end of the book is the where are they now. Yeah.

Avish Parashar

I saw that. Yeah.

Lisa Ryan

I just I that just when that came to me, it really cracked me up because it's like, here, I have a bunch of fictional characters. So where are they now? You know?

Avish Parashar

It is a fun

Lisa Ryan

book. Fine. Want to know.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And it's a fun book, and it's an easy book. And I don't mean

Lisa Ryan

that, like, because No.

Avish Parashar

It's super easy. It's crazy. Because it's written in sort of a a fable parable format. It's it's a story you get into and all how they're gonna do it, but all the lessons are woven in there. So I wanna touch upon the the 6 gears. Mhmm. We don't necessarily need to go too in-depth, number 1, both over time.

And number 2, because, you know, I want people to buy the book and read it. Yeah. But just maybe kinda hitting highlighting the gears, you know, starting with the the first one Yeah. Which is, attitude.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah. Well and add attitude really is the foundation because it you know, this takes change. And sometimes what it means is that leaders have to look and say, oh, maybe I'm the problem. Or they have new generations coming into the workplace with younger millennials and gen Z that see the world completely differently. And if the, those leaders aren't willing to make the changes to kind of rework their organization, to fit in with what employees are looking for these days, the rest of it doesn't matter. So attitudes first, the next one is appreciation, which is a personal practice of gratitude. Then we go to access, which is not only access to leadership, but access to resources and tools that employees need to do their job better and also to be better tomorrow than they are today.

The 4th gear is applause, and that is the tangible recognition for a job well done and exactly how to do that. Because I know I share in my programs, there's a, a guy came up to me after one of my programs and he's like, you know, Lisa, when I do something wrong, I get recognized 100% of the time. And when I do something well, it rarely gets noticed. And that just stuck with me. I mean, that applause. And if people are saying, you know, are you telling me I gotta thank my employees for doing their job? It's like, no, I'm, I'm, I'm not telling you that at all, but if you don't, somebody else will. Yeah. You're gonna lose them.

From there we go to acts of service, which is really that, what are you doing to make the world a better place? Because employees again, today are looking for how sustainable are you? How are you making the planet and my community a better place to live? And then the final gear, the 6th gear is accountability. How do we make that a process instead of an event? Because there's too many times, you know, you go to a a seminar or a conference, you come home with 26 different ideas that you want done yesterday. And your employers are like, oh no, they just got back from a conference.

Let's ignore everything that they say for the next 2 weeks until things go back to normal. Because you'll try something. It doesn't work in 3.6 days, you know, like done, you know, that didn't work. It's like figuring out how to make a commitment to implementing these, you know, one gear at a time in the order that works most for you and that you're willing to commit to.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And it's it's kinda like your story about leaving the the Tony Robbins event. Like you said, like, we're gonna just forget this, so let's get like, you create your own little accountability, which led to this sort of both life and business transforming practice. I I wanna dig into a couple of the points, just kinda ask a little bit more, from a purely selfish standpoint. You know? The ones that I kind of identified as as very like, yes, Andy. Oh. And it's sort of similar to some of the things I talk about.

So, number 1 is access, and, it's funny just to recently on the podcast I had on, Jason Eisner who we had a whole talk about psychological safety. And it was a very similar sort of approach in that you to build this culture, it's so critically important that people feel safe, and they feel like they have access. Like, they and the way I phrase it in my language is that people feel like if they, come to you as a leader that you're gonna say yes and to them and not immediately be like, yeah, but. Here's why you're wrong. Or, yeah, but.

Lisa Ryan

Right.

Avish Parashar

You don't need to worry about this. So could you go in a little bit more about kinda how you go about helping groups build a culture of of access and how that ties into the gratitude practice?

Lisa Ryan

Sure. Well and I like to start, excuse me, with kind of a before and after story. When I was excuse me. When I was 23, I was working for a company called Premier Industries in Cleveland, Ohio. It was started by a guy named Mort Mandel out of the trunk of his car in the 19 forties. You know, we had our company picnic, hot dogs and potato salad in the parking lot, and Mort was there. I was like, oh my god.

So I went up to him. I didn't even think about it. Mister Mandel, it's so nice to meet you. I'm so happy to work for your company. I don't even know. I was blathering like a 23 year old little fangirl. By the time I got back to the office, the office was a Twitter.

And this is well before Twitter, because back in those days, what I should have done is talk to my boss, who talked to her boss, who talked to his boss to talk to their boss to say, is it okay if Lisa talks to Mort that doesn't fly anymore? No. Employees want access to you. So, you know, you have that brand new employee, they're new to the industry. They know nothing about it. They march into the CEO's office on that 3rd day, uninvited, plop their butts down and look at the CEO. And they're like, you know what?

I know I've only been here for 3 days, but I see some things and I'd like to share them with you. And, you know, the CEO might be if he's old. So if he or she is old school, they're like, you know, trying to do everything so that their eyes don't roll back in their head. Cause we've been doing it this way for 40 years. It's not broken. But instead asking the question, like you said, yes. And what if they're right?

What if what they're saying is something because they're, they have access to technology and their brains that I can't even comprehend. They see the world differently. So, yeah. Yes. And let me hear more because what not only do I, am I showing you respect from listening to you, which they expect that access, but I'm also going to, I was gonna say, and I'm also showing you that I'm willing to change and willing to consider not making any promises because it may not be an idea that would work, but employees are expecting that access and they're expecting the acknowledgement instead of being shut down when they bring an idea to the table that may start off as being something completely off the wall, and then you find out, wow, this is exactly what we needed.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And the other thing that I'll I'll talk about with this is is that maybe the employee coming in there, maybe they are completely wrong, and, you know, they are new and they're young and they don't understand. So number 1, like you said, just having that respect builds that culture, that retention. But number 2, sometimes they'll say something that'll trigger a creative idea in your mind that you never would have thought of if you were just automatically thinking about how do I get this employee out of my office, or why is this young whippersnappers speaking up right now? It is amazing how just being in the moment. And if I could share a quick story, not about me, but since you are in beautiful Cleveland, Ohio Yep. Home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, my favorite rock band of all time is Rush.

And, so I was just watching an interview with their lead singer, Geddy Lee, who was talking about this moment with fans and how he was like, there was a point early on where, like, I I forgot I was stressed. I was at the end of a tour. You know, I was done with everything, and I was out, and it kinda like and and there's some fans at the gate to my house. And he's like, I just brushed them off because I was so done with everything. And I got in my car, and I had to drive somewhere. And he's like, and that moment stayed with me for, like, the next 5 hours in that drive. And he's like, you know, I'm only here because of my fans.

And these people put in how much effort to get to me just for a moment for me. He's like, yes. So that moment, I decided that I would always have time for my fans. Like Mhmm. Because when I do, number 1, it makes them happy, and number 2, it makes me happy. And, again, it's almost like a gratitude thing. It's like, instead of being like, I don't have time for this. I'm stressed.

It's being grateful. Like, it's being grateful that a fan is here or grateful that an employee took the time, and cared enough to come give feedback. Right. Because often we get defensive, and it actually happened to me. I had a a just a local friend, like a a friend of a father here, and, you know, I told him about my podcast, told everyone about the podcast, and he mess emailed me out of nowhere and was like, oh, yeah. You know, I want your podcast, and that kinda led me to your website. He's like, I'm a designer.

And then he gave me this email of just feedback on my website.

Lisa Ryan

I was like,

Avish Parashar

he's like, you know, he's a nothing major, but here are some things. Like, this color is off, and you got some buttons have rounds, others have squares in that. I was like and, you know, I'm a performer, so I have a very fragile ego. And so I'm just like, oh my god. I feel like I suck. I was kind of annoyed. Who does this person think he is?

But then without consciously of gratitude, I'm like like, shift. Number 1, this could make your site better. Number 2, like, he's doing it out of a good place. So be grateful that this person is actually taking the time to write you this long email. He does this professionally. He's doing it for free for you. And so and I and I've talked for a while here, but that little just that shift of, like, instead of being like you're taking away from me, realize that when someone does some of that, it's like, no. You're I'm I wanna be grateful because you're offering me a gift that if I look at it the right way, it can make everything better.

Lisa Ryan

Right. So Yeah.

And you never know where those new ideas are coming from. It's just

Avish Parashar

because Sometimes when you're a leader, you get so removed from the front line, basically, or the floor. Like, like, yeah, that's where your biggest innovations or or not necessarily your biggest ones, but your smallest ones that have the biggest impact could come from.

Lisa Ryan

Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.

Avish Parashar

Cool. Wanna talk about one more, one other deal. I'm talking about gear number 4, recognition. Specific about I wonder if we could share a little bit more. I'd never heard of this before, the the Lazada ratio Mhmm.

Which I thought was so cool. I'm like, oh, that's really interesting. So could you just share a little bit more about what that is and how that fits into what you teach Sure.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah. Marshall Lesata did a study on teams. And what he did is he looked at the way that they communicated with each other. And what he found is on a high performing team, there was a 6 to 1, 6 to 1 positivity ratio. So what does that mean? That means for every one negative re response, somebody on that team would hear, they would hear 6 positives And it wasn't all like, oh, yay. Everything that you do is so good.

It was like, you know what? That's a good start to an idea. Let's see how we can build on it. So it was a yes and

Avish Parashar

Mhmm.

Lisa Ryan

But it was respectful communication. On an an average performing team, the LASATA line, which is the neutral line is at 3 to 1. So for employees, who are receiving 3 positives for every one negative, they're kind of your quiet quitters. You know, we gotta stop looking at the fact of quiet quitters being a bad thing because they're not, they are doing exactly the amount of work you are paying them to do. They're not in inspired to give an iota more of effort, but at least they're not costing you anything at 3 to 1 they're at neutral, but below that where your biggest problem children are, they'll, it goes to 0.3 to 1. So they're hearing 3 times more negatives than positives. And a lot of time in leadership, that's how we think, well, we gotta fix it because it's broken.

We gotta get these people back on track. It's like, no, what if you start consciously looking for them to, you know, catching them in the act of doing things well and acknowledging it, and at least trying to get yourself up to the neutral line at 3, 3 to 1, you know, on your journey to that 6 to 1 positivity ratio. And, you know, in my programs too, I've been talking about the, the Gallup organization. One of the, one of their Q12 statements is I have been recognized for doing good work in the last 7 days. And we all know if you know anything about Gallup, they're very intentional with their language. So what is it about 7 days of being recognized for doing good work at work? That's so important.

What brings up the dopamine effect that when we're recognized, we feel good, but dopamine is also a little like bathing. It wears off if you don't do it regularly. So what Gallup found is, you know and so I encourage people, you know, keep a list of all your employees and maybe every week, you know, a little tick mark by when you recognize them. Because what that's going to do is in your mind, even if you don't particularly like someone, if you look at them almost like a science experiment and you specifically acknowledge them for the good work that they do, you may, that you may just be giving them exactly what they need to start to, you know, put more effort in and become a rock star because they actually feel that you are recognizing and appreciating them.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And I would think that if as a leader, if you had, like, a a list with check marks of when you're doing it, that that would eventually hopefully become more of a habit for you.

Lisa Ryan

Like, I Exactly.

Avish Parashar

Like, it feels very calculating. I'm like, oh, I haven't told Steve he's doing a good job. But it's more of a reminder to you, like because it is it is funny how, yeah, I think as leaders, we think our job is to correct bad behavior and fix things.

Lisa Ryan

Right.

Avish Parashar

And then on the flip side, you'll get leaders who when you tell them that, oh, you should tell them they did a good job, they'll say, oh, they already know. Or, oh, I told them that, like, like, a month ago. Like, yeah. They know, or, yeah, I wanna tell them at this awards dinner we're doing once a year. Uh-huh. But it's just like the little like, you said, Dopamine, and I'm doing a a whole deep dive into Dopamine my own personal life. So when you said that, I was like, oh, yeah.

That's you can say that. But there's a little hits to kinda keep building that. And I would assume this is a good assessment tool as well. Like, just as a starting point, just pay attention to, like, both your own communication and in your culture. How many, what is what would you say just, you know, even without getting real specific, just as an overall as a start overall sense, like, what would you say your organization or team's ratio is right now? So it seems like a great starting point to figure out, like, where are you with with

Lisa Ryan

this? Well and I know because I speak to so many manufacturing types of audiences that I have a lot of technical people in my audience, a lot of engineers, which believe it or not, they tend to be a little bit more introverted. You know? And here I am coming in with all my energy, and obvious exo extrovert. So I will tell them, you know, if this makes you feel uncomfortable, look at it as a science experiment. Mhmm. You know, what can I specifically notice about this person, and let them know, because again, now you're telling them that, you know, I'm paying attention to you, whether, you know, your work when you're doing well and when you need to be, corrected, but being specific like that?

And sometimes it's just walking through the plant or the office on your way to your office and stopping and saying, Hey, Avish, how are you doing today? You know, and if you are normally a chipper dude and, you know, when I walk up to you, I'm like, what's going on, Avish? Now I can go to my office because you know, I'm busy. I got stuff to do. Or I could say, you know, Avish, you're not yourself today. Is there what's going on? Is there something I can support you with?

I don't know that this was the day that you were going to give your 2 week notice, because you were just done, but because I stopped and I cared enough to ask you what's going on and how could I help? Maybe you're going, you know what? I actually this this place is pretty cool. Lisa's a good manager. I'm gonna stay. Mhmm. It's these interactions that you have no idea for the most part, what your employees are going through until the day they give their notice.

And then, you know, by that time, it's a little late.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And I would think this this 6 to 1 ratio seems very high. But if you tie these things together and you go back to the one we're talking about with access, I would think some of those 6 could just be as simple as when an employee comes to you with a question or some feedback or an idea, just how you respond to them. Like, it doesn't all have to be, let me praise you specifically about this or that. It's like, just when you come to me, am I giving you a positive response? Am I making you feel good, versus being either negative or even just perfunctory?

Like, oh, yeah. Fine. I'll take a look at it. But

Lisa Ryan

Right. Exactly. It's, again, it's respectful communication. Mhmm. So it doesn't always have to be, you know, pouring on the attribution, all that kind of stuff, you know? It it's really about just looking at your, the, the negative, because we have to have difficult conversations. If employees are off track, we gotta figure out and and sometimes that's a difficult conversation to have.

And if you're balancing it with, you know, enough encouragement about their performance in the areas where they're rocking it out, then, again, that's going to those are going to be easier conversations to have, and you're also being more transparent with them when things are good and when they're not.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. It's it's a lot of great stuff and great info, and it's a it's a cool story that's very easy to read, and then you got the great tactical stuff at the end. So, we're coming close at the end of the time. So, I'm gonna ask you a couple of final questions. 1 completely unrelated and that we've talked about.

Lisa Ryan

Okay.

Avish Parashar

So prepare yourself. Before, let's remind people if they want to find out more about you and about the book, where where the best places to find you and information about your content, your speaking, the book, all that stuff.

Lisa Ryan

Sure. My website is Lisa Ryan Speaks dot com. I am prolific on LinkedIn, and I pride myself as being the number one Lisa Ryan on LinkedIn. Wow. That's actually pretty impressive. I'm just gonna get the name.

But 25100 or so Lisa Ryans. But if there are a couple other ones, you could do Lisa Ryan in Gratigi, but I post regularly there. And then, of course, you'll find all my books on Amazon. Fantastic.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. There's not that many Avish Parashas in the world. So, I I told you at the end of my speech, like, oh, you got my contact info. If not, look me up, Avish Parashar. I'm like, if you forget that, just type Avish into Google, and I'll be one of so first question. It's it's a bit unrelated, but I'm curious if it is related. So you mentioned before you're a self described extrovert.

And so you do something in your business that most people dread and hate. And I'm curious if gratitude helps you with that, fits into that, or it's completely separate. But you actually make cold calls, and you refer to yourself, I believe, as a cold call queen. Correct?

Lisa Ryan

Uh-huh. Well, I I do make a lot of time. I have a smiling and dialing program that I do for a lot of our NSA chapters. And,

Avish Parashar

And for people listening that NSA is National Speakers Association. Yes. So at least it helps other speakers talk about how to smile and dial. Sorry. Continue.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah. Well and one of the things being one, you know, my first couple jobs were in inside sales, you know, formerly known as telemarketing, where when I was selling electrical cord and cable into the maintenance environment, I was making 80 to a 120 phone calls a day.

So I just, I'm just used to that. And that was in the, what, late nineties that I was doing that, or I don't even know, eighties, nineties, whatever it was. But I, and I, and I am very grateful for my sales experience because I know that when you have that connection right now, because so many people take email as the easy way out

Avish Parashar

Mhmm.

Lisa Ryan

Because they're not getting any you know, they're they're getting ignored in their email, but they're not having people slam down the phone on them or anything.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. And even I I'm guilty of this. That even if you get a negative response, it's just an email. You're just like, alright. You just archive it, delete it, and move on.

Lisa Ryan

Yeah. But with calling, you know and you're gonna leave a message. I leave a message 98.26% of the time when I call. But when you do get somebody on the phone and you have that connection and you're not doing it like it's a script, I'm like, hey, it's Lisa Ryan from gratitude here in beautiful Cleveland, Ohio, because usually beautiful in Cleveland, Ohio, aren't 3 words that you find in a sentence together. So, you know, they, but it kind of catches them off guard. I've had some great conversations with people and the nice thing about the phone, because so many people hate the phone, they're not using it as much. I mean, even telemarketers have become automated, which is why I don't answer most of the phone numbers that I don't recognize.

Avish Parashar

I don't recognize. Yeah. It's it's so interesting. And, and, again, on a side note, I'm curious. Have you done this you say you do it for the speaker associate chapters.

Have you done it for, NSA Philadelphia?

Lisa Ryan

I believe NSA Philadelphia was the very first smiling and dialing program that I did. I think I I didn't do it live. Was it a pandemic?

Avish Parashar

Might have been a pandemic when I missed that. So, I'll I'll put a word in because I from a selfish standpoint, I would like to hear this program, because I struggle with this, which is, again, free coaching and consulting I'm getting right now.

Lisa Ryan

No. And I I do it 4 chapters, so I'd more than I'd be more than happy if you guys are lining up your speakers.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. I think they probably got this year's calendar set, but I'll certainly reach out and say if you're if you're still looking or definitely get Lisa, in the in the future. Because it's it's so funny, this weird, like and, again, I kinda jokingly mentioned, like, I like approval and stuff. Is, like, I'll I'll go and do a speaking engagement, and I'll get leads whether it's through my own forms or now everyone's using Talkadot. And and they'll leave a phone number, and I'll start with email a couple times. And then if they don't email, I will pick up the phone and call them.

Lisa Ryan

Mhmm.

Avish Parashar

And I still even though this person has seen me speak, liked me enough to raise their hand and give me their contact info, I still feel an existential dread about making this call. I'm almost hoping for the voice mail, which you probably, you know, experienced some people you've talked with. But to your point, when they do answer the phone, it's always a great conversation.

So I don't know. And and the reason I'm talking about this, a, again, it's it's a pain point for me. But, b, I have always felt that, like, attitude and using gratitude in those cases is a way of sort of mitigating the fear. And I don't know if you consciously tie those 2 things together or if I'm just sort of, you know, making something where it doesn't exist.

Lisa Ryan

Well, I think for one thing, you know, especially for those people that filled filled out your surveys on Talkadot, when you call them, I mean, they already see that you're rock a rock star. You know, you rocked it on stage. They liked you enough to give you their precious phone number. And when you call them, they're like, oh, a fish is calling me. Holy cow. I can't believe this is, you know, because it, it, it's just like the, the audiences see that speaker, you know, as that rock star, you know, I mean, imagine if, you know, you're a Swifty and Taylor swift called you, you know, just out of the blue, Hey, I'm gonna be in your neighborhood.

Avish Parashar

Pretty cool.

Lisa Ryan

So if you switch that mindset on your own, because when I call and I'll say, thank you so much for filling out my feedback form, really appreciate it. You know, I noticed that you checked the box for wanting to learn. Don't know what's going on with my throat today. Don't know if you were, had something specific in mind or if you were just looking for a way to stay in touch. So it's an easy out that it doesn't feel like it's a sales call because some of them are like, oh yeah, I have an event coming up that I'd like to get your availability. Most of them are like, you know what? No, I just checked that because I really wanna stay in touch.

And I will say when I'm calling them, I never let a good phone number go to waste. You know? So, again, you're injecting your personality into the conversation instead of make it sound like you are reading from a script.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. Yeah. I hear that. Alright. Well, I'm gonna use some of those tips in addition to all the gratitude stuff. So, well, I guess one of the questions before I go to my last one. I'll the book was great.

I found value in it, but I feel like there's a target market for this book. And I don't have employees. I don't have a company. I don't really have a culture other than me and the cat that's sleeping on my desk right now. So I think anyone can read the book, but do you have, like, a specific, like, target market? You're like, these are the people that are probably really I wrote this book for this person or, you know, this job to

Lisa Ryan

You know what? I mean, it takes place in a manufacturing firm. So because that is my target market when I'm I'm, talking to audiences, but really it's such a, it's such a good story. And actually I got a, a note from, a lady the other day who actually wrote to me about the book, must have gotten it on Amazon or whatever. But she and she's retired and she, you know, gave me all kinds of feedback on the book and basically saying how refreshing it was to, read about a manager who listened to their employee, you know, and and was able to turn the company around. So, you know, even from oh, here it is. It was refreshing to see a bright intelligence maintenance worker, Frank, giving the new CEO advice on how to proceed in turning around the workplace culture.

Frank was James' mentor, a complete turnaround of roles showing that all employees have the potential to turn things around if upper management would use a bottom up approach along with traditional up down approach to solving problems. So I really think that it's a universal story. It just happens to take place in a manufacturing firm.

Avish Parashar

Yeah. So any leader, any HR person, any manager executive. And, frankly, you know, like I said, I don't have employees, but because it's all steeped in gratitude and gratitude practice, there's a lot of stuff you can take to your personal life or or solopreneur life. So check out the book. So my final question, which I ask well, another second quick side. Is this, based on a a real story, or is it kind of an amalgam of your work with with a variety of groups?

Lisa Ryan

It was an amalgam of my work. It was, to me when I first started thinking about it, because I love the fable, you know, the traditional hero's journey. And I just saw the character, James Peterson, taking over as new president of the SteelTech Manufacturing. And he's frustrated and the environment's toxic and people are leaving and he's throwing up his hands and he doesn't know what to do. And then one night he's walking through the plant after midnight and he hears the tapping of a machine, and he meets Frank, the wizened old maintenance guy.

Avish Parashar

That's true. Yeah.

Lisa Ryan

He was a mentor. Like it's really formulaic, just because I've read so many fables. You know? Yeah. But all of

Avish Parashar

his stories are right. They're they're they're formatting for a reason because it works.

Lisa Ryan

So I just you know, and then when it all started coming together and the characters started developing, like I said, it was a lot of fun to write. So, no, it is based on there is no real characters except that I followed the hero's journey kind of.

Avish Parashar

Right. Yeah. And all these are, like, real examples from your experience to sort of put together

Lisa Ryan

in this

Avish Parashar

kind

Lisa Ryan

of acceptable format. Okay. Yeah.

Avish Parashar

Now for real, my last question, and I try to finish all my podcast interviews with this question. I, you know, speak on this idea of yes and, and part of that's because I have an honest belief that the world would be a better place if everyone just did the simple thing of starting with a default yes and mindset instead of yes but. So what our situation is, if you start with the default yes and, I think the whole world would be a better place. So let me ask you, what small thing do you believe if everyone did differently or better would make the world a better place?

Lisa Ryan

I believe that if people consciously looked for ways to express gratitude to others, one of the ways to do that, you know, obviously, there's the gratitude journal, sending somebody a thank you note or a letter of appreciation. What's the difference in my opinion?

Thank you notice. Thank you for something. Thank you for dinner. Thank you for the gift. Thank you for your time. A letter of of appreciation is thank you because, you know, I appreciate you for these reasons. You've made a difference in my life.

Then we have the verbal acknowledgement. We also have gratitude meditations, just reflecting on things that you're grateful for. But if people consciously made the effort to find at least one good thing in their life every single day, we could turn this whole world around.

Avish Parashar

I love it. That's a great practice. It's a great answer and a great way to finish up. So thank you, Lisa, very much for, this great conversation. For you listening, be sure to check her out, Lisa Ryan Speaks, and check out gear up for greatness on, amazon. com. And all of her books got 13 books.

So, and go test it out. Go to LinkedIn. Type in Lisa Ryan and and see who comes up. Then if you want more info about Lisa, you wanna bring more gratitude and retention and engagement to your culture, you know, connect with her on LinkedIn and reach out. She does a great job. And we've been on the platform together, so I'm not just saying that as a like, we've actually I've actually seen you speak, so I I Yes. I agree.

So, thank you, Lisa. I really appreciate you being here.

Lisa Ryan

You are very welcome, my friend.

Avish Parashar

Alright.


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