I recently joined my friend and fellow speaker Penny Zenker on her Time to Reset podcast for a conversation about change, leadership, improv, and the power of a “Yes, And” mindset.
One of the big ideas we explored is something I’ve been speaking about a lot lately:
The biggest obstacle to change isn’t resistance. It’s apathy.
When someone actively resists a change, at least they’re engaged. They care enough to argue, question, or push back.
Apathy is different.
Apathy sounds like:
“Yeah, but what’s the point?”
“Yeah, but it won’t make a difference.”
“Yeah, but they’re not going to listen anyway.”
Eventually, people stop speaking up. They stop contributing ideas. They stop trying.
And because they aren’t complaining, leaders can easily mistake that silence for acceptance.
Penny and I talked about how leaders can use a Yes, And mindset to begin reversing that apathy. Not by giving better speeches or throwing another pizza party, but by involving people in the conversation.
Stop Dictating and Start Asking
Ask people what they think. Get curious about their answers. Dig deeper. And most importantly, actually listen.
We also talked about my unlikely journey into improv, why “follow the fun” might be underrated life advice, the role of human connection in an AI-driven world, and the six-part YES AND framework from my book, Say Yes, And to Change.
And we ended on one of my favorite reminders:
Life is unscripted. We’re all improvising every day!
You don’t need to be an improv comedian to get better at it. You just need to develop the mindset and skills to respond when things don’t go according to plan.
Watch/listen to my conversation with Penny Zenker here.
Thanks to Penny for having me on Time to Reset and for such a fun conversation!